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Raiding in Cataclysm

Right, not posted in a long time: long story short is that getting a job requires effort and a lot of time which I cannot devote to blogging, I'm going to make a few posts now about "future visions" because I have some time on my hands and I think this is a very important point.

Lets get some of the "pros" about the current cataclysm raiding setup, including some aspects introduced in wrath.

First point of call: Badges, emblems, points whatever you want to call them have been a good thing for raiding, it means that you are rewarded for downing a boss no matter how much rng you randomly got and will eventually get a good amount of gear, I personally like the ICC implementation of tier upgrading, although personally I would remove rng from this totally and be like First part requires only hero points, then the final point would be the 1st part + more hero points and get rid of the third part of the tier set *or* unlock it via boss kills and it would *just* be a reskin (similar to what has been done with arena) so it looks cool and is based on boss kills.

There are bad things with emblems though: 1) It encourages farming, whatever implementation of the system unless you introduce daily/weekly caps on the amount of BOTH justice points and heroic points. 2) It's ludicrous that people doing content that will eventually be completely trivialised by gear can get gear that is much higher than the content they are attempting (this is a real flaw in raid progression which I will touch on later). and finally 3) In the current implementation items are too expensive compared to the effort put in, say you can cap out at 1000 points (if like i said in 1 this basically just requires 1 heroic raid a week) then you should get 1 item from it so basically you can get 1 item a week and after 5 weeks you would have a full tier set (yes I actually would have it so that a full clear of heroic meant you could upgrade straight to the "normal/heroic tier" in 5 weeks).

The next thing: Heroic Raiding. I want to make it clear that the ONLY pro to heroic raiding in my mind is that people who purely want to see the story/content can see it in normal mode.

A few fallacies I want to dispel before going on here is that: Heroic mode does not provide an "extra challenge", it simply replaces the challenge normal modes presented in TBC, (lets ignore the fact that wrath "style" (ie infinite mana healers) has led to really easy heroic encounters). The second fallacy is that heroic modes do not provide a natural progression, they provide a brick wall, the difference between normal and heroic modes (lets discount gunship) is a gigantic gulf without including LK normal, it's amazing how big the increase in difficulty is from normal to heroic and this is attrocious, most of the player base is better than normal mode raids and worse than the "elite" guilds that want the "challenge" of heroic raiding. The final fallacy is that heroic raids are satisfying, this is my biggest "annoyance" with heroic modes, there is too much "choice" to go and just say "fuck it lets do normal the gear is almost as good" because of the previous point and there being such a gulf if people are wiping on heroic mode it isn't rewarding enough to progress through that gulf and have to wipe far too much and not have that progression, let me state that wiping is good but from wiping say 3x on a boss in normal to wiping 30x on a boss in hard mode with no real progression here is quite horrid. It should be smooth.

So, lets get to the meat and potatoes of my post here. Lets face it, in wrath there is no progression raiding and in cataclysm its likely to be similar, firstly the introduction of multiple raids per tier is A BIG IMPROVEMENT, doing 1 instance over and over and over again for around 6 months on average is hugely boring so with multiple raids per tier this is at least an improvement.

Firstly lets state the wrath model, that is each tier is your progression cycle, so in tier 8 you did Normal Ulduar -> Heroic Ulduar and used heroics to gear you up for ulduar, in tier 9 you did Normal Toc/Onyxia (later) -> Heroic Toc and in tier 10 you did Normal Icc -> Heroic Icc.

With the previous points you can see how this is flawed, because of the way normal has been set up "so everyone can experience the content", basically an easy mode in any other game, means there is a very shallow progression between bosses, there will be some but mostly its pretty shallow. This inevitably leads to a huge progression curve in the heroic mode, either it starts out really hard (like ulduar/ToC) or it progresses really sharply (ICC). Basically this means that most guilds will hit either a fight (Heroic LK) or just Heroic Modes (Beasts in ToC/Ulduar Heroics in General) where it's just so much harder than what they have been progressing through on normal mode, this breaks guilds and makes raiding less fun.

Imagine playing an rpg on easy mode where say you have unlimited ammo/invulnerability and then going to the *ONLY OTHER DIFFICULTY* lets say normal for this case where you have limited ammo, limited health and all the mobs hit harder/challenging mechanics. A good example of this is F1 2010 which I played recently, I did a couple of races on easy where all your acceleration is automated along with being invulnerable and showing the racing line so basically you just steer and going from easy->medium increases competence of your opponents and stops automating acceleration and gets rid of alot of the racing line and makes you vulnerable to damage and the learning curve is just HUGE, not that I mind the actual difficulty level of medium, it's just it would have been more enjoyable to learn on a curve.

So, in cataclysm this is set to continue that the progression level of players is meant to go from normal->heroic in the same tier and because cataclysm class systems and such (ie healers can go oom) there is a much much much bigger room for making more difficult encounters, means that the gap between normals and heroics is only going to grow, even if normals are harder base than in wrath, heroic mode will be just that much harder and I can only see this happening.

So what would I do about this, simple look back at the past about what I enjoyed about Tbc raiding. Ignoring stuff like attunements and such it was the fact there was a very clear progression path, Heroics/Kara->Gruul/Maggy->SSC/TK/ZA->Hyjal/BT->Sunwell. I was in pretty bad guilds in tbc since this was when I started raiding, but what I loved was that I was always progressing through content and I had a clear goal of how good/bad a guild was. I knew that if a guild was in ssc/tk it was better than a guild just starting in gruul/maggy. The gear disparity was much bigger, which I also thought was a good thing (although not necessarily needed). The main point here was that there was a huge progression curve, you could progress up through bosses and because it was long there weren't that many cockblocks, sure Kael/Vashj were harder than the rest of TK/SSC but they were good step-ups and not outrageous ones in my mind. I never personally was annoyed that I missed out on sunwell because I knew I needed to improve to get to that level which was great.

So what would I do, I would set Normal mode as the entry level raiding, basically every normal raid would be very similar of difficulty, whatever the tier so the Last tier raid would be equal in difficulty (perhaps slightly harder) but would reward the same level of loot. So in cataclysm all normal raids would drop 259 epic loot, basically everything "easymode" would reward entry level loot, this would mean that if people want to "see the content" then they can do it on easymode and then heroic is where the real progression happens, and loot progresses upwards from t11->t12->t13->t14? and there is no option apart from t11 to just do normal really because there is no reward for doing so, normal raids would also only reward justice points which could give you some tier below content to help progression a little on the heroic mode progression.

Heroics would not reward justice points or heroic points at all, they would be purely to get 246 gear which would be required for the normal raids, the challenge of heroics should be the only reason one should do them. Heroic 5 mans should not be a valid way of getting gear of the current tier or even the tier below, they should be there to make a jump from fresh 80->Normal 5-mans->Heroic 5-mans-> Normal Raids-> Heroic Raids on a much larger plain than currently.

I believe this system combines both the perks of the wrath raiding (of which there are very very very few) and tbc raiding (which I personally loved) and allows for a silky smooth progression curve and allows people to see the content if they want to. I also feel like it would truly show you how many people want to see the content if it's not challenging, if that option is there for no reward but to see the content would people go and see it or would rather progress through the tiers to see it when they were good enough. Obviously the first few tiers of heroic content would be a little easier than it would be with the other system but I feel like it would be so worth it in the long run of the expansion.

I understand it might be "too late" to implement this because the ilvl's for the last raid in cataclysm have already been formulated to make sure the progression of character power is balanced, but if this isn't I would love to consider this idea, I feel this is far superior to a proposed 3rd difficulty level which just stagnates content, how many people replay an rpg on easy, normal and hard difficulty. Mostly if people want to see the story they will do it on easy and then go straight to the hardest difficulty and replay or not do it at all, and if people want to just do the game at their difficulty level they will do just that and not go through on easy first.

I also want to add as an adendum that normal mode should absolutely not be required to do heroic modes in it's current format, it's ridiculous that people should somehow be forced into doing an easy version before the hard version because of an attunement. I hate rpgs/other games that unlock a harder difficulty after completing it on the hardest difficulty, it's dumb I want to be able to do the hardest challenge the first time through, not the 2nd time after certain things are "spoiled".

Holy Paladins in Cataclysm Build 12942

Alright, been a long time since I posted, mainly because I decided to play some mass effect 2 and then play wow beta and well I have a load of beta playtime and haven't really had a good time to write anything up. Probably not going to do many more zone write-ups other than "feels" of zones, because I feel like I probably go into too much detail otherwise and realistically it takes up too much of my time.

Regardless though I wanted to post my thoughts on Holy paladins at the moment in the beta, it is my beloved spec and well I have stuff to say.

Tell me how Divinity is not a boring talent that is completely mandatory for healing -_-. I would love to step into cataclysm where say the following changes were made:

1) Divinity scrapped, reworked into passives

2) Blazing Light moved to Tier 1, reworked slightly to be comparative to Arbiter of the Light for damage.

3) Enlightened Judgements moved to Tier 2, perhaps controversial for ret/prot to be able to take this so perhaps reworking for seal of insight judges. Note: I do not believe tier 2 talents should ever be anything but optional for subspecs, and certainly not mandatory, it means I have incredibly little choice.

4) Improved Concentration Aura reworked, I personally don't like the idea of concentration aura anyway, it's outdated and makes it mandatory, I realise auras are a "core mechanic" of the paladin class right, but right now they are buffs, they don't do anything exciting they are just passive. I would propose making auras more like thorns has become. You could do this by adding one to each spec so that say Prot has an armor cooldown, Ret has a "thorns" cooldown and Holy already has Aura mastery. Resistance aura and Crusader aura (unfortunately ^^) should be scrapped. Resistance aura makes aura mastery mandatory as a talent for healing and I feel creates too many problems. It will feel really mandatory in 10 mans I feel and should just be scrapped for the better good (along with the shaman equivalent, which I think is a talent :S). These are off the top of my head I just don't see how auras are fun, especially talents that improve them.

5) All movement increasing talents scrapped: it is silly how some specs do not have to enchant run speed on boots and others do, please get rid of these talents. The enchant is a great discerner of good and bad players, having talents negates this and are so mandatory when they should be utility, at the very least make talents only 8% so that basically it is utility and you are choosing between speed on boots or another enchant plus the talent.

6) Protector of the Innocent should be scrapped, at the very least the +% healing for people with devotion aura. It's a talent that would likely be skipped over by Holy Paladins regardless with the current trees and again, talents that prop up abilities that should be like this baseline are silly.

7) Improved Judgement made baseline, I think this is obvious, at the moment every spec will take it, it is an amazing talent and should just be made baseline, it's kinda silly that every spec will just put these 2 points here.

8) Rework Eternal Glory or move it down the tree, it's too powerful and too unreliable in my opinion, it means less fun choices when healing. I'm not sure how I would change it, I would probably just move it out of reach of holy because I feel it is a perfectly good talent for rets to have access to.

9) With the above changes in mind, move Rule of Law up to tier 1 and rework either rule of law or crusade into a 2 point talent.

10) Keep pursuit of Justice in it's current location minus the 15% increased run/mount speed, the problem here is you need to add in say a 2 point utility talent and a 3 point mandatory talent for retribution here which would not be mandatory for neither holy nor prot, this is pretty tough I have to say but yeh the tree would be so good if this could happen.

11) As an aside I would consider making judgements of the pure baseline aswell, it's certainly going to be mandatory for both holy and ret, probably prot too and it's a bit of a beefy talent at 3 points regardless, it's not necessary for holy to be a good tree but for ret/prot to have good sub-specs this would need to be addressed.

Personally I just want to say that "fun" for me is to

a) be able to know what are the best talents to take at max level (when levelling it's less of an issue, I mean I don't really know whether certain points are worth more during levelling etc). I don't want to have to go and research on some forum/website what spec I need to take because I have to choose between throughput talents. (If I have to research utility choices thats ok because that will probably change from fight to fight and overall don't have much impact on my throughput

b) Choice, this probably coincides with point a here but I mean I don't want to feel like I'm bottlenecked into taking say 38/39 out of my 41 points and have to choose between say only 2 talents. I like say how Ghostcrawler recently advocated on the forums about taking talents like Denounce and Blazing Light in the Holy tree, quite simply I can't without impacting my raiding throughput, and hence I would never take them for anything short of levelling, which is pretty sad imo and is basically what we have in talent trees right now.

New Build!!!

Right, new build I had started my Dwarf Shaman but I'm gonna hold back on writing up because the new build unlocked Thousand Needles for Testing, sooo I can finally get to 55 on my druid/priest, which Is pretty cool.

Dunno if this post is really worthy of a post but lets point some clear things out from this patch.

1) They want to heavily tune down "mana-regen" tactics, this is a great decision it means you have more room to make mistakes as a healer and this sort of thing.

2) Removing Illumination, I never liked this talent as like a pathetic amount of mana, it worked better with 100% back on crits because it just felt nicer, but it's too hard to balance around this mechanic at all levels of gear I would presume and so it's been removed and probably for the better.

3) ZG IS GONE!!!?!?!?!!!!????!!!! Please make those mounts welfare so I can laugh at a certain somebody who farmed those for over 4 years and only just got both of them recently :)))).

Exciting Talent Trees in Cataclysm

Since this was a blue tagged post, I presume they want some specific feedback on talent trees so far in the beta, which are the most exciting and stuff.

I think first of all you need to look at what is meant by "exciting", if you mean huh this tree is pretty cool looking, or if it's like bam that's an exciting tree. I think the wording of this is pretty poor, realistically I think talent tree analysing falls into 2 categories: Core talents, and Utility talents.

Let's be frank with my feedback here, none of the talent trees are "exciting" in my book, since they are basically still the exact same way they were at 51 points, there are still going to be builds you can't have any choice over for pretty much every spec. The fact this question is being asked makes me think that a lot of the talent trees are finalised in terms of layout talents and such, and if this is the case then there was 0 point moving from a 51 point to a 31 point system, the same problems are still there with the talent trees.

Stuff like increased run speed is labored as a "utility" talent and is "optional" whereas as a hardcore raider I know that is anything but the case, run speed is a mandatory dps talent, like Metabolic boost is for zerglings in sc2, run speed=dps and is mandatory. Most of the talent trees at the moment are 31 points in your direct tree that you have absolutely 0 choice over, sometimes you are choosing between 2 different throughput talents and you can't have them all, this is wrong.

My "vision" for 31 point trees would be that you would have 25 points in your main tree that were mandatory for dps increase, this includes talents like run-speed aoe increases (because not every fight is patchwerk) and then you should be left with 5 points in your main tree you can spend on other utility things, such as Selfless healer in retribution or denounce in the holy tree, where there probably will be a "best" spec, but it would probably end up varying from fight to fight and beyond those 25 initial points might increase your dps by 1% at most, but more likely will give you utility to your group.

I think a prime example of the talent tree's failure is the talent impact, you called specifically for ideas on "utility" and I don't think it's too surprising people would give you ideas for dps increasing utility. At the moment impact is basically fire pestilence, obviously a bit rng but yeh, and that makes this talent mandatory, it is going to be a big dps increase on certain fights and does not in any way shape or form fall under the term utility in terms of raid utility.

Raid utility are stuff that don't directly increase your dps and are very situational, perhaps they help healers out with healing or are things that give you snare immunity or increase time on utility spells, stuff like incorperating the current glyph of evocation into a talent, thats purely utility. Many people would probably take it but only if the talent system fell under my criterion.

The idea here is so you end up needing to spend about 4 points on average per tier and then have 1 extra point per tier (maybe 2 or none per tier but on average 1) where you can put into any talent you have access to and it be "ok".

My main problem with talent trees are there are going to still be plenty of talents that never see the light of day outside of say levelling, denounce is one of these in Holy's current status, you just don't have any room to take this interesting utility talent, it obviously doesn't affect healing throughput it's just utility but I can't take it because I don't have enough points.

My biggest qualm with talent trees right now are the subspecs. I realise Blizzard wants to encourage subspeccing but ideally I feel people should have loads of choices with their subspec options, if something that is "mandatory" for dps is in the second tier I have to devote 8 points to that tree, you may argue that you can choose between talents in the first tier (often this isn't the case and people need "motivation" to spend talents in the first tier to get to the second tier) but well surely it's better if there are around 5 mandatory points in subspecs, that were all in the first tier. Lets say for shadow we had evangelism and Archangel in the first tier and then twin disciplines a 2 point talent in holy and then some talents in shadow main tree clipped, ideally you would end up with a cookie cutter spec which is like

3+x/2+(5-x)/25+6 where you get to choose the plus talents completely freely, right now in pretty much every tree the talent tree cookie cutters are like 31/8+x/(2-x) where you basically have a maximum of 2-3 points you can choose from, and even then thats being generous. I'll try and list the "best" trees that fall under this criterion.

1) Shadow Main tree

I've already commented on how this tree doesn't really work for levelling because of mana issues, but if we ignore this we get a pretty good tree, you end up with 4 points to choose between utility talents, you could grab silence and psychic horror or you could grab the free pvp trinket or a stun or whatever, you have a lot of choice in the shadow main tree. This is exactly how I would hope to choose my max level spec (obviously whilst levelling this needs tweaks but thats more rearranging talents that are mandatory and the same cost rather than anything major).

However if we look at the subspec options we just don't have any, all 10 points have to into discipline, 8 points are already mandatory in discipline, and 2 points extra in the second tier all have dps consequences so really you only have 2 points to choose between mental agility and improved power word: shield, which isn't enough.

2) Fire Sub-spec

I want to make it clear that this is about Sub-speccing options, the actual fire tree is poor because you don't get any choices for utility (unless you consider impact utility) and you have to actually spend 32 points in the tree to get all the dps talents you want.

However, looking at the subspec options of the tree they are probably one of the most ideal, you have 3 points you *need* to spend in arcane/frost (that is netherwind presence/Piercing Ice) then you have 4 free points you can spend in either tree or back into the fire tree on pure utility and not on dps increasing talents. Obviously I feel like netherwind presence and Piercing Ice should be 2 point talents, (or even removed since these are talents which are supposedly boring). This assessment also presumes that arcane concentration is in no way mandatory for fire mana conservation. If it is then this sub-spec is again worthless.

I want to note these are all from a pve stand-point, in my opinion pvp is useless and shouldn't influence choice on talent trees, obviously utility talents have far more use in pvp than in pve. I also want to note that I do not consider purely threat talents in a tree utility unless they are an increase to aoe threat, numbers are not finalised so I cannot tell how mandatory those talents would turn out being.

Other trees which are pretty good:

Beast Master Hunter Main-tree

Arcane Mage Main-tree

Fire Mage Subspec-tree

Frost Mage tree (some talents need work but overall the feel is good, subspec is pretty good aswell presuming frost doesn't need master of the elements and arcane concentration)

Retribution Paladin Main-tree

Holy Priest Main-tree (If Test of Faith is changed to 2 points)

Shadow Priest Main-Tree

Combat Rogue Main-tree

Subtelty Rogue Main-tree (Presuming that Energetic Recovery is not Mandatory, Cheat Death is Reduced to 2 points)

Elemental Shaman Sub-spec Tree (I'm torn on this, 7 mandatory points is too much but you have good choices with the 3 remaining points, it remains here but it's borderline)

Affliction Warlock Main-Tree (If everlasting affliction is a 2 point talent)

Demonology Warlock Main-Tree
Destruction Warlock Tree (Very good tree (from my limited understanding of Destruction Warlocks)

Arms Warrior Main-Tree (Improved Hamstring needs to be 1 point or a talent below it only 1 point otherwise this can't be taken)

Fury Warrior Main-Tree

Protection Warrior Main-Tree (Borderline.. I say this is ok presuming aoe threat isn't mandatory but you can't get all of the aoe-threat talents as utility so it needs some tweaking but is "ok")

Trees which need to be changed:

Blood Deathknight tree (Choosing between throughput talents in main and subspec)

Frost Deathknight tree (Only 1 choice at tier 2, rest is mandatory)

Unholy Deathknight tree (Choosing between throughput talents)

Balance Druid tree (IF Owlkin Frenzy procs on all attacks, this tree needs work... if not then it is ok IF Moonglow is not required for boomkin mana regen, subspec is all mandatory)

Feral Dps Druid Tree (All mandatory, no subspec balance options & mandatory 8 points in Resto)

Feral Tanking Druid Tree (All mandatory, arguable that kotj is utility but that's the only thing you can spend points on, subspec options all in resto but amount of choice is good)

Restoration Druid Tree (Far far too many mandatory talents in resto, I had to spend 5 extra points to get everything, subspec options offer no choice)

Beast Master Hunter Sub-spec Tree (no choices at all)

Marksman Hunter Tree (All Mandatory and too many talents, no choice in subspec options)

Survival Hunter Tree (All Mandatory and too many talents, no choice in subspec (presumably I don't have enough knowledge of survival hunters to know for sure))

Arcane Mage Sub-spec Tree (8 mandatory points, little choice beyond that)

Fire Mage Main-Tree (Way too many mandatory points, probably want to spend 35 points in the tree)
Holy Paladin tree (All Mandatory talents in both main and sub-spec trees)

Protection Paladin tree (Way too many choices of Mandatory Talents in both main and sub-spec trees)

Retribution Sub-spec tree. (8 Mandatory talents with little choice available for the remaining 2)

Discipline Priest Tree (Absolutely no choice, all talents are mandatory in both main and sub-specs)

Holy Priest Sub-spec Tree (This is here because there are 8 Mandatory talents, the choice between the final 2 is pretty good though)

Shadow Priest Sub-spec Tree (All talents in sub-spec are mandatory, you even choose between 2 throughput talents, nothing in holy is worthy of sub-speccing)

Assasination Rogue Tree (Presuming Back-stab is an execute ability all talents are mandatory (Movement speed is not utility), choosing between dps increasing talents in sub-spec)

Combat Rogue Sub-spec Tree (Considering run-speed is mandatory and that eviscerate is used in combat rotation 0 choice in sub-spec)

Subtelty Rogue Sub-spec Tree (Considering Run-speed is Mandatory, no choice in sub-spec)

Elemental Shaman Main Tree (Way too many Mandatory Talents)

Enhancement Shaman Tree (No choice in Main-spec or sub-spec, (regardless of if primal wisdom is or isn't mandatory)

Restoration Shaman Tree (No choice in Main-spec or sub-spec, (Elemental Precision needs to be available and not mutually exclusive with Movement speed))
Affliction Warlock Sub-spec Tree (No choice at all)

Demonology Warlock Sub-spec Tree (All Mandatory points, choosing between way too many dps increasing talents)

Arms Warrior Sub-spec Tree (This is dependent on Enrage stacking with wrecking crew, if it does it's bad, if not then the sub-spec tree is "ok, but could use some tweaks")

Fury Warrior Sub-spec Tree (Deep Wounds is far too mandatory to be 2nd tier and 3 points, should be baseline and removed, then sub-spec is perfect)

Protection Warrior Sub-spec Tree (Too many Mandatory Talents to choose between)

Hopefully this comprehensive list of opinions tells you what you want to know, the best tree at the moment is the Destruction Warlock Tree in my eyes, whether you call it "exciting" is very different because I don't think "exciting" quite cuts it, all the trees are pretty exciting but this tree is the most well made and allows for the best freedom of choice whilst remaining as exciting as some of the more bloated trees.

Feralas Alliance Supplement

Similar to Desolace, Feralas is basically a mirror on the Alliance side with pretty much identical quests, however the questing flow and actual story on the alliance side is just much more engaging, the zone starts off identically until we get to Feathermoon Stronghold as opposed to Stonemaul Hold. Here you are given a briefing from Shandris Feathermoon to 3 worgen sentinels, this not only gives you a sense of progression through the zone it also just makes the zone far more engaging on the alliance side.

Firstly you fly over to the ruins of Feathermoon and find it to be under brutal assault from the naga, you fight your way through the naga to kill the named npc and get to fly back, pretty short but also very engaging and immersive. I also love how feathermoon stronghold looks in comparison to the Stonemaul Hold, it's just so.. lovely.

Moving on from here we get sent to the Highborne encampment where our second worgen is located, basically we get complete mirrors to Stonemaul hold quests, but instead of the Muisek quest we get a quest which apparently is rallying the troops. However, these are in a 20,000,000x better order than the muisek quests and flow perfectly with the other quests in the area, I also like how rallying the mobs here sometimes spawns horde poachers you need to take down, so you still have to kill as much as the horde people do.

When taking on Cho'gall in the Dire maul arena, which had sound when I did this, which is so awesome.. this event was pretty damn epic anyway but the sound just makes it great, instead of the orc leader you get Shandris Feathermoon helping you out, which just feels so much better and makes more sense. I presume it's somewhat of a bug that she basically 2-shots cho'gall compared to the orc leader, but regardless ^^.

The final worgen leader is located at a new alliance encampment, which basically all the quests here have not been implemented on the quest map however they are purely identical to the horde versions, apart from the lack of alliance involvement with the Grimtotem encampment, regardless to say that I presume this is NYI, since the alliance npcs are still located in the grimtotem and presumably will be used once these quests are implemented.

Ysondre is still bugged, so can't bring any feedback on that quest here, and well here are some pictures, the alliance side is definitely much better than the horde version of this zone, it flows better but still suffers from some lack of quests by being a level short of where I should be finishing this zone.

Desolace Alliance Supplement

This is going to be a pretty short post since basically this zone is practically identical for both the horde and the alliance, there are a couple of unique quests but they are basically mirrors of the horde versions, firstly there is a quest, which is actually probably available for the horde aswell you are just never directed there, it involves killing lots and lots of the local wildlife, I feel that 15/15/25 are way too high numbers even if its a 100% drop-rate, they feel like nagrand v2 and that is never going to be a good thing, perhaps reducing these to 25/10/10 would be good, since the vultures drop more than 1 item per kill. Otherwise it's a pretty simple kill quest.

The other quests are the reclaimer's incorperate want you to collect a chest and then kill naga to get the satchel to drop. This quest seems to be a vanilla remnant and if this quest is to remain in the game it definitely needs to have some auto-questing here to stop the painful travelling to and from Nijel's point.

Finally the Explorer's league hub has a quest to kill a named apothecary in the south, pretty standard quest really and It's pretty much there instead of killing the named orca in the bay, nothing particularly amazing and so you can see the questing experience is very much shared. The quest where you destroy nijel's point is obviously not in the alliance version and no alternative quest is given either, instead you just go round Satyrnaar and do the 3 quests at each of the areas of interest and nothing else comes of them.

Overall though there isn't much to talk about for this zone so just a few screenies ^^.